Strict Standards: Declaration of KHttpUri::set() should be compatible with KObject::set($property, $value = NULL) in /www/htdocs/w006b358/libraries/koowa/http/uri.php on line 454

Strict Standards: Declaration of KHttpUri::get() should be compatible with KObject::get($property = NULL, $default = NULL) in /www/htdocs/w006b358/libraries/koowa/http/uri.php on line 454

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::register() should not be called statically in /www/htdocs/w006b358/libraries/joomla/cache/cache.php on line 19

Strict Standards: Declaration of JCacheStorage::get() should be compatible with JObject::get($property, $default = NULL) in /www/htdocs/w006b358/libraries/joomla/cache/storage.php on line 173

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::register() should not be called statically in /www/htdocs/w006b358/libraries/joomla/document/document.php on line 19

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::import() should not be called statically in /www/htdocs/w006b358/libraries/loader.php on line 186

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::import() should not be called statically in /www/htdocs/w006b358/libraries/loader.php on line 186

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /www/htdocs/w006b358/libraries/koowa/http/uri.php:454) in /www/htdocs/w006b358/templates/ja_purity_ii/libs/ja.template.helper.php on line 130
open letter to mr. president kibaki

Bushdrums.com

You are here: Bush-Talk Forum Conservation Hunting - an integral tool in wildlife conservation? open letter to mr. president kibaki

Strict Standards: Declaration of ComNinjaHelperDefault::__call() should be compatible with KObject::__call($method, array $arguments) in /www/htdocs/w006b358/administrator/components/com_ninja/helpers/default.php on line 19

Strict Standards: Declaration of KControllerAbstract::__call() should be compatible with KObject::__call($method, array $arguments) in /www/htdocs/w006b358/libraries/koowa/controller/abstract.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Declaration of KViewTemplate::__call() should be compatible with KObject::__call($method, array $arguments) in /www/htdocs/w006b358/libraries/koowa/view/template.php on line 22

Strict Standards: Declaration of KModelAbstract::__call() should be compatible with KObject::__call($method, array $arguments) in /www/htdocs/w006b358/libraries/koowa/model/abstract.php on line 19

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::register() should not be called statically in /www/htdocs/w006b358/administrator/components/com_ninja/models/settings.php on line 10

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::import() should not be called statically in /www/htdocs/w006b358/libraries/loader.php on line 186

Strict Standards: Declaration of ComNinjaboardDatabaseTableSettings::_getDefaultsFromXML() should be compatible with ComNinjaDatabaseTableSettings::_getDefaultsFromXML() in /www/htdocs/w006b358/administrator/components/com_ninjaboard/databases/tables/settings.php on line 20

Strict Standards: Declaration of ComNinjaboardDatabaseTableAssets::insert() should be compatible with KDatabaseTableAbstract::insert(KDatabaseRowInterface $row) in /www/htdocs/w006b358/administrator/components/com_ninjaboard/databases/tables/assets.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Declaration of ComNinjaboardTemplateHelperPaginator::pagination() should be compatible with ComNinjaHelperPaginator::pagination($config = Array) in /www/htdocs/w006b358/components/com_ninjaboard/templates/helpers/paginator.php on line 13

Warning: Illegal string offset 'active' in /www/htdocs/w006b358/templates/ja_purity_ii/html/pagination.php on line 129

Warning: Illegal string offset 'active' in /www/htdocs/w006b358/templates/ja_purity_ii/html/pagination.php on line 135

Warning: Illegal string offset 'active' in /www/htdocs/w006b358/templates/ja_purity_ii/html/pagination.php on line 129

Warning: Illegal string offset 'active' in /www/htdocs/w006b358/templates/ja_purity_ii/html/pagination.php on line 135

Warning: Illegal string offset 'active' in /www/htdocs/w006b358/templates/ja_purity_ii/html/pagination.php on line 129

Warning: Illegal string offset 'active' in /www/htdocs/w006b358/templates/ja_purity_ii/html/pagination.php on line 135

Warning: Illegal string offset 'active' in /www/htdocs/w006b358/templates/ja_purity_ii/html/pagination.php on line 129

Warning: Illegal string offset 'active' in /www/htdocs/w006b358/templates/ja_purity_ii/html/pagination.php on line 135

Warning: Illegal string offset 'active' in /www/htdocs/w006b358/templates/ja_purity_ii/html/pagination.php on line 129

Warning: Illegal string offset 'active' in /www/htdocs/w006b358/templates/ja_purity_ii/html/pagination.php on line 135

Warning: Illegal string offset 'active' in /www/htdocs/w006b358/templates/ja_purity_ii/html/pagination.php on line 129

Warning: Illegal string offset 'active' in /www/htdocs/w006b358/templates/ja_purity_ii/html/pagination.php on line 135

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::import() should not be called statically in /www/htdocs/w006b358/libraries/loader.php on line 186

open letter to mr. president kibaki

Link to this post 17 Mar 07

Pippa,
you continue to criticize hunters for their doing but it seems you fail to see that their doing must be considered conservation. I am not saying it is the best solution of all, but it is definately conservation.

Let me oversimplify a situation: An elderly man and a young pregnant woman are the only remaining humans on the planet and they are fighting for their survival. There is not enough food for both and they are aware of it, hence they fight for their lives.

Letting nature take it's course, the man will survive because he is stronger. At the same time, this means the extinction of mankind because he can not reproduce anymore.

A hunter would kill the old man to make sure the young woman will survive and give birth to off-spring that can again reproduce. This way, the hunter will avoid extinction. This is conservation.

What would you do if you were there and had the means to interfere? Please remember that there is not enough food for both, so don't suggest that you would speak sense into their minds.

Further: If you don't accept hunting as a conservation method, why don't you suggest a better one? One that is applicable and realistic.

I would really appreciate if we could be a bit more productive in our discussions.

To avoid misunderstandings: You are free to express your opinion just like everyone else here, but I think we have all expressed our opinions enough times and we agree to disagree. Hence let us take this discussion to a more productive level.

The goal of this forum is not to try and convince each other, but to make use of each others knowledge and work on a solution.

What else, apart from hunting, could we do with a buffer zone in which poaching is taking place and which is not suitable for photo-safaris?

Maybe a low-budget safari destination, affordable for families as mentioned in another post?

Link to this post 17 Mar 07

carsten,
these hypothetic stories are always used when it comes to search for excuses!
i know that game but i won't play it - sorry!
i state it a last time: humans have no, absolutely no right to kill - NOTHING and NOBODY. the only excuse is selfprotection or defense or food.
humans have created a mess and now need to kill animals in order to interfere with the very own mess they have created?
noway.....won't agree in a thousand years!
regarding your question for another solution: i have never said that i have one! i just differenciate between what i consider right and wrong!

Link to this post 17 Mar 07

Ok, you don't have an answer and neither do I. Otherwise we wouldn't be sitting here (on bushdrums).

But what do you suggest to do about buffer zones where poaching is reducing wildlife day by day? Nothing? That would make the situation even worse. Something NEEDS to be done! So far, the only options we seem to have is to leave it as it is, or to allow hunting businesses to look after the area. It is a question of choosing the smaller evil unless we come up with a better idea. I would be the last person to promote hunting if there was a better solution.

Sorry to say this, but I believe, before we criticize someone for his actions, we should have a suggestion for how to do it better. And since we don't have one, I am desperately trying to find one. Until then I prefer hunters to look after buffer zones rather than poachers and herdsmen.

Link to this post 17 Mar 07

Carsten:

I'm curious. How do you define a buffer zone?

To me it indicates an area around a park in which no-one may move. For instance, no-one can move within five miles of the park/reserve boundary, thus keeping people even farther away from the main park/reserve area.
If it is the buffer zones you are worried about, then it would seem to me that the only way to create safety is for the government to legally create it - and you know how difficult/impossible that is.

What I would love to see happen is for the government/wildlife authorities let people know in no uncertain terms that they now have the heat-seaking devices loaded in their planes which will detect humans who are illegally in the parks/reserves, and if they are found in those areas illegally they will be killed. After enough of the poachers and snarers are killed and stories posted in the newspapers, people will think twice before entering the parks/
reserves to poach or snare. They already have these devices but have chosen not to use them yet.

The problem would be that those groups that legally do walking safaris would of necessity have to notify the authorities which areas they will be in so that they will not accidentally be shot.

It would not protect the wildlife outside of the parks, but after a period of time the animals would learn that it is far safer for them in the park and would tend to remain there.

With the increase in poaching the last year or so, one would think that we'd be hearing about poachers being shot - but I haven't heard anything about it.

One also has to wonder if anyone bothers to inspect the containers before they are placed on ships to be sent to the Orient. There must be ivory sniffing/pelt sniffing dogs or some other way to quickly check a load to see if contraband is in a container. Does anyone know if this is currently done? When I drive from Mombasa to Tsavo I can't help but wonder with every huge truck that is heading towards Mombasa if they have ivory, animal skins/bodies or what aboard them. Many of these trucks come from Uganda, Rwanda, etc. and I'll bet Kenya doesn't have a clue what is in them.

I just think there are so many other things that could be done to help prevent poaching, snaring, bushmeat trade etc. that I would try long before I would allow sport hunting. I respect people's right to do it legally in other countries, but I would hate to see it happen in the Kenya that I have grown to love.

Link to this post 17 Mar 07

jan,
regarding your thoughts on preventing poaching i fully agree! excellent ideas! but we speak about africa......

but is there such a thing like a people's "right" to kill for sport or fun? the question is: who OWNES the wildlife? the government? the citizens? the minister for environment? NO! it's our all heritage which doesn't belong to anybody except our children and grandchildren. we europeans and you americans should have learned this lang ago! we all had fantastic wildlife here but depleted it ! now they travel to africa to do the same there!
being "legal" is not necessarly only based on a written law! to me it's illegal despite the law allows it!
a similarity: till 09/11 some groups were called "freedom fighters" and they were highly respected humans. after 09/11 they are called "terrorists". that shows that a thing turns just opposite depending how governments want to see it!

Link to this post 18 Mar 07

Original von Jan
Carsten:

I'm curious. How do you define a buffer zone?

To me it indicates an area around a park in which no-one may move. For instance, no-one can move within five miles of the park/reserve boundary, thus keeping people even farther away from the main park/reserve area.
If it is the buffer zones you are worried about, then it would seem to me that the only way to create safety is for the government to legally create it - and you know how difficult/impossible that is.

Buffer zones are areas between national parks/reserves and inhabitated areas. These areas are open to both sides meaning that wildlife can walk around free but it can also be accessed by humans with their herds. This land is usually dense bush with no infrastructure at all. The land is worthless for photographic tourism because of the dense bush that hardly allows you to spot an animal. This of course also makes it easy for poachers to hunt and hide.

We are talking about massive areas and since KWS has enough trouble keeping poachers out of the parks itself, they simply don't have the money, equipment nor man-power to control these areas, too.

Often these buffer zones are also migration paths.

These are the areas where wildlife has decreased by 60% in the last 20 years due to human-wildlife conflict and poaching.


Original von Jan
What I would love to see happen is for the government/wildlife authorities let people know in no uncertain terms that they now have the heat-seaking devices loaded in their planes which will detect humans who are illegally in the parks/reserves, and if they are found in those areas illegally they will be killed. After enough of the poachers and snarers are killed and stories posted in the newspapers, people will think twice before entering the parks/
reserves to poach or snare. They already have these devices but have chosen not to use them yet.

This is happening already. Unfortunately the profit from poaching seems to dominate fear of life so far. Hopefully KWS will be more successful in the near future. Don´t forget that there are also a lot of poachers and weapons coming from Somalia these days. We are talking about highly criminal and well equipped energies. These people are used to gun-battles and this is their only way to survive. Many are illegally in the country.

Original von Jan
The problem would be that those groups that legally do walking safaris would of necessity have to notify the authorities which areas they will be in so that they will not accidentally be shot.

No big deal at all. Every mountaineer has to report his trip before he can wonder off. Why not do the same for bush-walks. Anyhow I am not very fond of the idea of tourists wondering about in the bush without a clue what they are doing. It would make sense to have an eye on these activities conducted by private camp owners.

Original von Jan
It would not protect the wildlife outside of the parks, but after a period of time the animals would learn that it is far safer for them in the park and would tend to remain there.

What makes you think that an animal can differenciate? It stands on dry soil without a single green leaf and sees some yummy green gras a few meters in front. Only we humans have a line on our map that shows what is a park and what isn't. Plus, as numbers of wildlife increase inside the park, the young go off to find new territories and nutritious land. Nothing will stop them from leaving a park and once it is shot, there is nothing to learn or `tell´ the others.

Original von Jan
With the increase in poaching the last year or so, one would think that we'd be hearing about poachers being shot - but I haven't heard anything about it.

One also has to wonder if anyone bothers to inspect the containers before they are placed on ships to be sent to the Orient. There must be ivory sniffing/pelt sniffing dogs or some other way to quickly check a load to see if contraband is in a container. Does anyone know if this is currently done? When I drive from Mombasa to Tsavo I can't help but wonder with every huge truck that is heading towards Mombasa if they have ivory, animal skins/bodies or what aboard them. Many of these trucks come from Uganda, Rwanda, etc. and I'll bet Kenya doesn't have a clue what is in them.

We have published information on poachers being shot by KWS a couple of times and they have also managed to find ivory that was hidden in containers with double walls. The port authorities do check for such things, but don't forget that they are dealing with highly criminal actions. We are talking about big money. They are facing corruption, bribing, high-tech equipment, large logistic networks, violence... the works. It is not easy.

Original von Jan
I just think there are so many other things that could be done to help prevent poaching, snaring, bushmeat trade etc. that I would try long before I would allow sport hunting. I respect people's right to do it legally in other countries, but I would hate to see it happen in the Kenya that I have grown to love.

These days everything is about money. Hunting enterprises are prepared to take care of poaching etc. hence they are doing some kind of conservation in these buffer zones and on top of it, they provide the government with an income. The government can only win from this.

Hence I believe, the only way to stop hunting from being reintroduced in Kenya is, if we can come up with a better solution. One that will make enough money to take care of poachers and human-wildlife conflicts and at the same time provide the government with an income.

As I mentioned before: Something like low budget accommodation for families that can not afford the park entrance fees and 500$ per person per night but still wish to go on safari.
Ok, they won't get to see all too much, but better than nothing.

I just don't know if this could work out and pay off. It is simply an idea that needs further processing.