No point discussing with a fanatic. I´ll take your view of me as "ignorant" with a smile knowing that that is exactly what you have potrayed yourself to be with those last few sentences.
Have a good weekend.

bwanamich

a bit puzzled about your last statement! why so aggressiv? you should be able to swallow the answer to your first sentense
why don't you state your answers to my questions regarding your kids etc?????????

have you ever have the courage to walk serengeti on your own without being heavily armed that would make sense in order to show how manly hunters really are

could you agree to discussions on any topic related to africa without getting into hunting?

there must be something else you are interested in............which can contribute to a civilised conversation! especially because africa is such a divers continent and has so much to offer besides this cruelty dating back to colonialism.......

wish you a fantastic weekend

Original von pippa
bwanamich,
...could you agree to discussions on any topic related to africa without getting into hunting?

there must be something else you are interested in............which can contribute to a civilised conversation! especially because africa is such a divers continent and has so much to offer besides this cruelty dating back to colonialism.......

wish you a fantastic weekend

To be honest I don´t really wish to get involved here, but pippa, isn´t the topic about hunting? Hence, why should bwanamich talk about diving here?

Now go ahead with your argument... :-O

carsten,
now you got involved you are the moderator here and maybe you decide for yourself:
there are no answers to my questions which per sé is disappointing but instead it becomes personal .
the topic here was the letter to mr. kibaki! i was hoping that members would have pointed out other means to interfere or advise of any kind

My `not wanting to get involved´was addressed to the personal level the conversation has led to, not the matter in general.

The letter - and the situation in general - is a very difficult topic and I don't have much of an answer for it.

I doubt that Mr. Kibaki is ever going to receive - not to mention, read - this letter, so I guess, this whole effort is in vaine.

The link to the petition is in my eyes a shot into your own foot. You are "threatening" with millions of people that are connected through the internet, but the list of 600 odd signatures shows exactly the opposite. If only 600 people on the whole world are against it, I assume this is a number that Mr. Kibaki can live with.

Where I agree with bwanamich is that I don't see green tourism bringing more money to the local community than hunting. In both cases the money goes abroad, hence that is not much of an arguement.

I believe, that there would be no discussion about reintroducing hunting if alternatives would have proven success. However, they havn't. The situation is getting worse every year and animal protection groups have failed to deliver success.

We must differenciate between National Parks / Reserves and buffer zones. I doubt that anybody is seriously trying to introduce hunting in the Masai Mara for example. In those parks there are alternatives that are doing well and wildlife is doing fine within these areas. It is the buffer zones where numbers are reducing fast and it is those areas where organizations have failed to provide solutions for conservation and wildlife - human conflicts.

We must accept that private hunting enterprises ARE a solution for stopping illegal poaching etc. and and the hunting enterprise will make sure that wildlife will recover, even if it is only for their own benefit to kill selected animals and make big money. They don´t cut the branch they are sitting on, hence they will conserve wildlife.

If this option is not good enough for us, we must provide the government with a better solution. Leaving things the way they are, will make it worse, hence that is not a solution.

The question is: Who, if not hunting enterprises, is able to provide the manpower and money to control these areas? KWS seems to have enough trouble keeping poachers away INSIDE the parks. Who is prepared (and can afford) to send a whole army of heavily armed rangers into dense bush to risk their lifes in a battle against poachers that are wandering about with crates of ammunition and rifles of all calibers? Born Free? Sheldrick Trust? Local Camp owners? - I doubt it. Don't get me wrong, they are doing a great job and I take a bow for their effort, but they can not stop poaching.

Yes, the government could. But simply sending some troops there to stop poaching leaves the land and wildlife unutilized which means, they would create a barrel without a bottom. They would be spending millions every year without ever receiving a single cent back. As long as hunters are prepared to cover the expenses and on top of it provide the government with an income (which will probably end up in their pockets), the government would be stupid to do the dirty job itself.

In my opinion, a letter to Mr. Kibaki offering an alternative solution that includes an income for the government is the only thing that can stop them from reintroducing hunting. Trouble is, I can´t think of one

you know sometimes i think to myself maybe we should re- consider much moire australia and the south pacific to travel in peace and without worrying too much.
africa, considering its nature especially animals, is such a great continent but there are times where i just cannot bear being confronted with such dimension of stupidity, corruption, greedyness and colonialisation type of attitude of whites etc.
meantime i think maybe travellers should spend their vacation dollar in places where they have not to worry that much what's going on there!

by the way: it's almost 900 signatures and there are still many days to go - and yours is still missing

i am pissed off by this..need a break