When I was a teenager I slept at the damn in a little 2 person tent next to the 4x4 and woke up in the morning with hundreds of Buffalo around me....
Tsavo is a wonderful place for safari if you enjoy the bush as you do not have as many people driving around as the more popular national parks. The more north of Kenya you go - the less tourists as well.

Nico:

You say: "People who "live" in areas get to know lions very well by thier looks, paterns, scars, behavious etc. For the normal eye they look the same but they really are very different." But I wondered how Jan knew there were several prides living in that area. Can Jan recognise all the individual lions in the Aruba area?

Also you say: "Lions are territorial animals with one dominant male."

But the catfolk website (http://lynx.uio.no/lynx/catsgportal/cat-website/catfolk/afrleo02.htm) says: "A single male or coalition of males (up to seven) holds tenure over one or more prides, and effectively excludes strange males from siring cubs with pride females (Packer et al. 1991a). Competition among males for pride tenure is intense, and average tenure is only two (Packer et al. 1988) to three years (Stander 1991). "

And you say: "When cubs grow up, the young males leave to find and create their own territory if they cannot "run" out or push out the dominating male.
This is how various prides are created."

But the catfolk website says: "Males will only seek tenure over or breed with related pride females under unusual circumstances (e.g., when the population is small and there are barriers to dispersal: Pusey and Packer 1987, Packer et al. 1991a,b)." In other words they will always leave the pride unless it is very unusual circumstances. You seem to be saying that when cubs grow up they often displace the dominant male(s) in their own pride and breed with their own close relatives.

The catfolk website also says: "The core unit of the lion’s matrilocal society is the pride, which consists of a group of related females (none dominant) and their cubs (Schaller 1972, Bertram 1975a, Packer et al. 1991a)." This seems to contradict your statements that if young males leave the pride they "create their own territory" and "This is how various prides are created" because what the catfolk site is saying is that it is the females which occupy the territory and successive males, or male coalitions, associate with a pride of females occupying a territory for two or three years before they are replaced by another male or males.

Then you say: "In the Tzavo area and especially around Amboseli, there is an increase of lions due to better control and also migrations paths and ways are getting blocked to over farming and fencing. This means Lion prides are competing for land closer to each other rather than spreading out."

Please can you tell me where can I find the information that shows that lion numbers in the Tsavo area are increasing?

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Jan:

I'm afraid I',m rather confused. You wrote: "For years there has been a nice pride of lions living fairly close to the dam on the Voi side. Another pride lives a little distance away heading toward Satao camp. As far as I know, they don't interact but remain with their own pride. However, if there are no natural waterholes with water, they will several times a day go to Aruba Dam for their water supply."

It seems strange that two prides would be living "a little distance away" when the catfolk website (http://lynx.uio.no/lynx/catsgportal/cat-website/catfolk/afrleo02.htm) says: "Average pride home range sizes vary from 26 to 226 km2 (van Orsdol et al. 1985, Viljoen 1993), and can be considerably larger - Stander (1991) reported that one pride in Etosha NP had a home range of 2,075 km2." and the African Lion Working Group website (http://www.african-lion.org/lions_e.htm) says "lionesses are better able to defend their hunting territories against other female groups if they do so in a pride. Large prides dominate smaller ones and females will attack and kill their neighbours."

But the catfolk website says: "Prides are 'fission-fusion' social units: membership is stable, but the pride members are often scattered in small sub-groups throughout the pride range, and each individual spends a considerable amount of time alone (Schaller 1972, Bertram 1978, Pusey and Packer 1987)."

Could it possibly be that the two "prides" that you mentioned were in fact members of the same pride who had temporarily separated into sub-groups and that is why they were found "a little distance away"?

I'm still wondering how many lions is "a lot of lions" at Aruba as you didn't say how many lions were in each of the two/several prides there.

Taru:

Sorry but I can't give you a definitive answer on the actual number of lions in Tsavo or if the prides seen near Aruba could be a pride/subpride. It is possible but I just don't know.

It is the Amboseli lions that had grown in population. Numbers were way down with them until I was there in August, and I was told then the population had increased to 50 lions/lionesse/cubs.

Lions and their prides are different from one range to another. Southern Africa and, from what I understand even the Mara, have larger prides than they do in Amboseli or Tsavo. I'm not entirely sure what the reason for this is. Some of it may be terrain and available food supply - some might in part be due to some areas not having as much human habitation/wildlife abuse.

The entire subject of lions is one that needs to be studied further. In fact Packer and his group didn't believe there were maneless lions in Tsavo until just a few years ago when they went there and discovered for themselves that it was indeed true.

Wish I had more answers for you.

Taru -

Thank you for your in-depth comments.

My knowledge of Amboseli, Tsavo and the Mara is pure “living” knowledge if that is the correct words to use in English.
I was born in the area as we were coffee producers (more on the Tanzania boarder) and my local knowledge is from listening to people like my father (who has been in the lodge business) for over 50 years in the areas mentioned and speaking to game wardens, professional hunters (yes hunters who perhaps have the best knowledge of what is going on in local areas – we have one registered on our site) and NGO’s of various wildlife commissions who I have helped set up projects on wildlife migration passages, the effects etc.
Updates also come constantly through wonderful people like Jan, Pippa, lodge owners, drivers etc who over the years have found a passion for Kenya and its wildlife that exceeds the knowledge of most of us.

However to answer your questions – my knowledge on Lions and wildlife in general comes through my wife as well (who studied veterinary medicine) and books.
We are very lucky to have some wonderful people registered on our website called Bonbon (cannedlion)

Send her a PM and I am sure you will be getting great information.
I also purchased a book written by the latter which is part of my wildlife library.

Sorry I cannot be more specific - I am sure if BwanaMich is on line soon and reads this he will be able to answer and add as well.
Thank you for the contribution and research - we all learn this way.

How come such a passion for lions?

Nico:

It is not a passion for lions. I just tend to question if what I am being told is really true. For example, in this thread Jan went from "lots of lions in the Aruba area" to "several prides" to "two prides" to "possible two sub-prides" to "I can't give you a definitive answer". If a politician said that, I would take it to mean "I have no idea what is the answer." There is no shame in not knowing the answer. But I wonder if it is a good idea to make statements like "lots of lions" in one doesn't know. If the authorities are persuaded there are lots of lions at Aruba perhaps they will think that it does not matter if fishing and boating has an impact, because there will be enough lions remaining anyway.

We are also told Amboseli lions are increasing. Hooray! But then we learn the increase is to 50 and are told nothing about over what period this increase took place and who determined it had occurred and how? Suppose, for example, the original number was 40 and two females each had 5 cubs. That would be a 25% increase to 50. Wow! But many young animals never live to grow up and the cubs might all have died a few months later. So if we just look at "Amboseli lions are increasing" and do not look at the full context and history; then we may well have a completely wrong impression of what is really happening.

You seem to have extended the reported increase in Amboseli to include the whole of the "Tsavo area" without giving any justification or saying what you mean by "Tsavo area". You say you gained this knowledge because you lived there and you give a very long list of professions whose members have informed you. But one does not get to know how many squirrels are in New York's Central Park by growing up a couple of blocks away and one does not get to know how many squirrels by talking to the nearest hotel owner or bus driver. If the information is just unsubstantiated opinion then that is what it will always be. Even if you have a lot of unsubstantiated opinion, it still does not become hard fact. You cannot count animals by conducting a public opinion poll.

If I sound unkind; that is not my purpose. But there seems to be no shortage of "information" on the internet which, although stated as fact, turns out be just an opinion or idea. Often the accepted wisdom, when it is tested, turns out to be completely wrong.

I guess it is my fault for asking questions for which the answers are unknown. Sorry; I'll shut up now.

Taru:

I don't think anyone can satisfy you. Even if you contacted lion researchers directly I don't think they could give you a firm number of the lions in Tsavo (some researchers from the US go to Tsavo for only a few weeks during the year). Researchers tend to focus on one given area (i.e. southern Tsavo) and do not study the northern area. Unless you are a researcher who can drive off-road and get up close, have strong binoculars and know how to tell one lion from another by its whisker pattern the average tourist wouldn't know the total count of lions nor would you necessarily know if the lion you saw in the afternoon is the same one you saw in the morning unless it had distinctive markings. Also keep in mind that the weather patterns effect what you see. During the rainy season the large herds move off and the lions usually follow - thus what you see in February might be different from what you would see in April or May.

All I can tell you is that I go to Tsavo twice a year, two weeks each time. Thus information I have is based simply on what I see during those periods of time. Some times you don't see many lions - other times you see lots. In Amboseli in January 2008 I saw very few lions; in August we saw them often and I was told by someone in the know that the number had increased to 50.

The "fishing and boating" in the Aruba Dam area doesn't effect only lions. Aruba Dam is the only place in miles and miles that animals can get water (when it hasn't dried up). Hundreds of elephants, buffalo, zebra and other wildlife go their twice a day for their water sources. Were there to be boating and fishing it would scare all the wildlife away from their only source of water.

If you continue to need more detailed information then I would try contacting some of the researchers who can give you more accurate and detailed information. This website is not research oriented. We are a group of wildlife lovers who travel to Africa or live in Africa and report on what we see. We try to give travelers an idea of where they might want to go and what they might see.

Sorry I can't be of more help.